2020 Hindsight

Posting from the GVL Fire Station : ) - SNOW!

This is on the RimoftheWorld.net message boards for Green Valley Lake.

From: GVL Fire Station

Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 08:06 PM

Well, Hello everyone. This is coming to you live from the GVL Fire Station. We are all here and yes very tired. The fire, no matter what the news says has not made it to our lovely town. It is as Roger said to the north and west of Trails End. It is holding along the hiking trail from Tent Peg Campground to Fishermans Campground. We made some small progress today with the help of 3 Heavy Helicopters and a Bulldozer from CDF. They have taken all of the supporting engines that we have had staged here off the mountain for the night due to the threat of snow......Ok, it is no longer a threat..IT IS SNOWING!!!!!!!! Sorry to cut this short but we really need some sleep. Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers. GVL Fire: Joseph, Matt, Digger, Tom, Paul, Chris, Luke, Rusty, Lance (Scott is off on the USFS Helicopter but here in spirit). Don't know if we will be able to get back on line but we will try to get back each day and give you an update if possible!!!!!!, [emphasis mine]

GVL trivia: It is the highest place in So Cal. Elevation that is. 7200 feet.

Listening to a radio show today w/ some learned plant scholar talking about erosion and flooding, he said the best possible form of precipitation we can get with post-fire soil hardening is snow (soil surface is waxy and water resistant due to burnt out plants that, after vaporizing, drift down again on the ground and form a kind of waxy seal). But what am I thinking? The fire didn't reach GVL so it's just pipe-freezing weather! (oops) But for places where fire hit, the snow is a good thing; don't know how low the snow level is. (I was just told it was predicted to go down to 4000') Good. If I recall right, Crestline is 4800'.

message board updates

From Charlietuna, [via Joe Urbz]

2 nights ago I stopped posting just right before the Fire crew in Hook creek pulled out and endured the flashover inside of their trucks... windows so hot they could even touch them with gloves, not mention the paint on the trucks burning off. 1/2 hour in hell, not knowing if your days were up or not. The firemen on duty here are all people to be awed and thanked. Remember that whenever you see them after this is all over."

From the RimoftheWorld.net message boards, Green Valley Lake thread:

posted 3pm:

Hi all, just heard a report from Jeff Gill who is on the mountain with the fire fighters that the fire is a 1/2 mile away from the Calvary Chapel youth camp. Best wishes on you all.

posted 1pm: Everthing in Green Valley is great. It has been snowing. There are 13 ot 15 fire trucks and 45 to 50 firemen. They are working out towards crab flats cutting fire breaks. The fire has damaged nothing. The closest it got was over a mile.

Don't even try returning back yet

For the benefit of S Bdo mountain residents who are finding this site via Google:

Do not even attempt to go back up the hill!
It is dangerous; power lines are down.
If some patrolman needs to chase you down, you're taking him/her away from a more worthwhile task.
Just stay put. Don't fuck it up.

Door to door trick or treating

I remember hallowe'en two years ago, just after 9/11, and how I melted when I saw a toddler dressed up as a fireman.

Last year I spent hallowe'en in Las vegas and observed my niece's first bout of trick or treating (she was not dressed as a fireman). Later on, firetrucks came down the street, flashed their lights and handed out candy to the throng that gathered at the truck. I don't think they'll have as many trucks out this year to do that.

This year when it comes to trick-or-treating, all I can think of are firemen: They're up there right now, taking advantage of the weather, going door to door to renew foam on houses, pull furniture away from structures. They're not wearing costumes; this is not for kicks; it's their regular gig.

on "rimoftheworld.net"'s upgrade and wider reputation

RimoftheWorld.net did a server/site upgrade to handle all the additional traffic last night. Someone there posted that Channel 5 news mentioned the site. (how long before he needs to do another upgrade?) The noise to signal ratio is changing. More and more it's getting deluged with "Does anyone know what's going on with the area in [insert name here]?" With so many queries, it's hard to hunt for the posts that contain real information.

(I'm getting a small number of email queries "do you know anything about...?"--I'm just a person in the san gabriel valley who really needs to get outta here and do some work and all I know I find by the boards and the scanner radio and Joe Urbz's weblog. follow the links posted here.)

pe.com: At last, rain to the rescue

(free reg required) Weather slows fire down. No structures lost yesterday. Some firemen who packed to fight fire when it was hot didn't pack their warm things. Fog makes it difficult to keep lookouts to watch fire and get firerighters out in time when things flare up.

Rain and possibly a dusting of snow are forecast for tonight and Saturday, and that should finally inject enough moisture into tinder-dry brush to give fire crews the edge they've needed. High temperatures are expected to drop into the 40s today.

... But the Old Fire won't be extinguished anytime soon. "That fire will probably be going until we get significant rain or snow on it," Shameson said.

Thursday's fog and rain helped retard the flames by putting more moisture in the air and, most important, in the tinder-dry trees and grasses the fire has been consuming. In the extremely dry forest of the San Bernardino Mountains, the effect will be slow to materialize. It takes days for even small limbs to soak up the moisture, said Benson with the Southern California fire operations center.

... Big Bear is a ghost town, but The Log Cabin restaurant is open and feeding reporters and firefighters. Owner Steve LeCroix said he had evacuated Tuesday, but was allowed to come back up only under the condition he open his restaurant. [LeCroix is an in-law to one of the old MetaCreations Bryce engineers; I've been wondering how they're faring.]

Rant on why you shouldn't sneak behind fire lines

Also from the message boards: A rant posted by someone who's working the fire about those who sneak into the area. Worth reading!

From: Jesse (spectr17)

Just got home, long day. One rant I need to voice for those of us working the fire and those on the fire line who can't speak right now. There have been people post here and email me about sneaking across the fire lines into the burned area. I listenedearlier tonight to CDF report of 4wds in the off limits areas at Rimforest. Looters? Idiots? They don't know yet but they are diverting people to find out. People, pull your head out of your asses. There isn't nothing on that mountain worth your life. The evac order was long ago and you are not only endangering yourself but also the firefighter or cop who may have to stop what their doing to save your sorry butt if you get trapped by the fire. Stay off the mountain and stop thinking about only yourself, your family or retrieving a TV or damn couch. We don't come to your work and stand in the way so please do us all a favor and stay the heck out of the fire area. If you want to looky loo, the TV has the best views. Even if you're not in the fire area and you just clog up the nearby roads, you tie up the logistics and support people who are bringing up the food, fuel and parts needed to keep the FFs going. We are trained to operate in the fire area and have an escort or radio with us at all times so we know when to move. You don't and that is what gets the knuckleheads in trouble. I can guarantee you one thing, if you cause a FF or cop to lose his life or get injured because of your stupidity, you will be a pariah in society. I personally will make it my new quest to publicize the names of whoever causes any harm to those working up there. Sorry if this seems harsh or rash but this is something that shouldn't be happening and it's causing a lot of problems not only here in the Old Fire, but all over. Just stay home please and stay out of the way.

description of situation near Running Springs

This is on the RimoftheWorld.net messageboards; RS (Running Springs) section. MikeS works on something to do with fire analysis (wind, terrain, etc.) and working on the fire perimeter map. Here's his report (over several posts) of about an hour ago:

From: MikeS

Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 10:48 PM

UPDATE: Fire flanked RS to the W in the canyon area W of Live Oak and S of Nob Hill. Near miss on the W extreme of Enchanted near the canyon. Possible loss of 1-2 out structures. Fire line continues NNW to intersect HWY 18 .2 miles SW Nob Hill. Crews held the lines. All houses on Poplar, upper Live Oak, and possibly lower Nob Hill foamed. No structures reported as lost

Line continues NN from the HWY 18 intersect to the vicinity of the T6 Deep Creek crossing (where Hook Creek RD crosses Deep Creek). From there the line trends NNW swinging slightly N of Lake Arrowhead.

Fire flanked RS E missing Smiley running up Friedalba canyon towards the CEDU school. Fire remained W of Keller peak but has run up to CEDU and is in the vicinity of RimWood. Line is approx. .25 miles S of RimWood and runs SW for about .5 miles. There are no reports of structure loss in the area. Fire is active but on the ground and significantly hampered due to weather conditions and fuel model in the area. More to follow ...

(in response to a specific question) You are asking me to speculate. Model suggests no significant advances. It really doesn''t look like the fire will run again tonight. Lines should stay relative to present location all night. Heavy, cold, thick air forces fire to lay down on the ground. Outlook good.

UPDATE: CEDU School. I have not heard any reports of structures in immediate danger or other crews being re-routed to this area. This is favorable.

RS RESIDENTS: If even one aspect of the fire model changes overnight, things could become radically different. However, I do not expect this to happen.

scanner report: Do recon of Green Valley Lake

Radio scanner: just had a request for someone to "do recon" to see how close fire is to Green Valley Lake. (I think I'll be staying up to hear this. It feels good to hear them mention protecting the structures in that community.)

update: Yeeow! Saw this other version of heat map. Fire off to the west of GVL. Better to have all that with moist air, tho (she said, with hope in her voice and the cabin keys prayerfully with her in her jeans pocket)

Some 'Before' Pictures

The fuel for this fire is an abundance of dead trees, killed off by drought and the bark-beetle. What did the forest look like? I just dug out some photos from the August Trip to the mountains. We went on a hike down the road that leads to Crab Flats, to a lookout point where you can see the valley between Green Valley and Lake Arrowhead.

Looking close-up at dead trees:

You can see the ratio of dead trees to live ones looking out in the distance toward peaks beyond:

To give you a sense for where we were (and what has been burning), here are some maps made by heat-sensing equipment recorded by flyover. (from yesterday 10/29)

Map of the whole area; close-up area shown in yellow

Yellowish box and lines: Our approximate location and perspective for that last photo.

Update: 9:50pm from message boards:
I talked to the GVL fire station. The fog is still so thick they can't see anything. They are driving out the crab flats road occasionally to check on the fire's progress. Its slowly moving toward GVL against the wind. We now have a total of 13 to 15 engines in town and more coming Saturday afternoon or Sunday morning. We now have a division comander in town. Joesph and Mathew spent 21/2 hours with him showing the town and shairing their concerns and thoughts.

...Continuing conversation with GVL Fire Station. The Dickie's have offered the Lodge to our fire fighters and the Camp has been helping with food. When the fire fighter get up in the mornig they will be continuing cutting brush and working on fire breaks. Their best guess is the fire is over one mile away and as long as the wind holds we should be ok. Our prayers go out to you all.